I'm not apathetic towards suffering, no. But I don't believe that dismembering an unborn child will solve any of those problems. The "inconvenience" I'm talking about is responsibility. Most women get abortions because they simply don't want a child to care for. They want to fool around and have sex, but they can't handle parenthood. Over one third of the women who get abortions are on no form of birth control. That's completely irresponsible.

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There is nothing so simple that it cannot be misunderstood. ~Anonymous

In case of this, the way of the middle would be the adoption, wouldn't?

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My little wyvern: please gave him a hug!: [link]

My art: [link]

Yay! I'm glad I exist, too. Thanks for the compliment.

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There is nothing so simple that it cannot be misunderstood. ~Anonymous

Thanks! There are actually a lot of blues and greens in this piece, but your monitor may be calibrated differently. It has the same contrasty effect though.

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There is nothing so simple that it cannot be misunderstood. ~Anonymous

A "Pro-life" stance is protective of all life, as you said. In a case where the mother's life is in danger, both lives are equally valuable. That being said, can we dismember her unborn child to save her life? Certainly not if we value life. But saying that she should have the baby isn't sentencing the mother to death, either. Ultimately, both lives are where they always were- in the hands of a loving God who created them both. Doctors are often wrong. I had an acquaintance who was told by her doctors that she would probably die if she went through with a pregnancy, yet she gave birth without any serious complications. How can we really know for sure if the mother's life is in danger?

But let's say, just for the sake of argument, that the mother will for certain die if she continues her pregnancy. (In reality, this is only the case once in a few thousand abortions.) Who gave us the right to make that decision? A parent's first duty is to his or her children, not to himself/herself. As a society, we have lost our religion, and there is nothing left but selfishness and a fear of death.

I hope I never have to make the choice between myself or my child, but if I ever have to, I know the choice I would make. If I only believed that I would cease to exist and be put in a hole in the ground, I would do anything to save my own life. But I know that I'm going to be in heaven when I die.

Thank you for the comments and compliments. Sorry if I gave you more information than you wanted... or if I got off topic.

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There is nothing so simple that it cannot be misunderstood. ~Anonymous

it struck me indeed. beyond the fact that it's physically impossible for such a feat as depicted, it had a shocking sense of reality. i think it's because the baby looks so peaceful and relatable.

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Climb out of your holes people! ~ <3, Dr. G. House
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i believe Jesus died to give us life. if you do too, post hugs in my comment box.
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Good art takes a long time, great art takes forever and a day

Let me first advise you, since you apparently have no real knowledge of the Bible, not to attempt to use Biblical reasoning for your arguments. If you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God, then you aren't a Christian and really don't have any business using it. Besides, you have only misquoted it or made things up outright, and it just makes you look stupid.

You think that parents create life and not God? Who causes conception? Who creates life? Consciousness? The soul? There is much more to a human being than tissues and organs. And no amount of scientific testing can determine when these things come about, or how. You could do nothing without the talents and capacities which God gave you at conception.

I can tell that you have never known anyone with Down Syndrome. I have. I was part of a Jesus Cares ministry program. They aren't suffering. They are perfectly normal human beings, minus some coordination and social skills. They laugh, cry, go to work, poke fun at each other, have crushes, tell jokes. Some of them actually have higher than normal mental capacities. A few even get married and have perfectly normal families. The suffering they feel, if any, is caused by other people (like you, apparently) who think that they are less than human and feel sorry for them, or treat them like inferiors. If you think that someone with Down Syndrome should never be born, then you are a selfish, heartless individual and have no place being a parent. It's harsh, but it's the truth. It's only sad that there are so many who share your opinion. (Hitler did, too, by the way. Ever heard of Eugenics?)

Whether there is any truth to your story about an infant being raised by wolves or not, the point is that without a caregiver, she would have died. Your opinion that a fetus is just a lump of tissue attached to its mother is just that--an opinion. A mother and her child are two individuals. Just because one is dependent on the other does not make it subject to termination at the convenience of its mother. Your only real "reasons" for abortion boil down to selfishness.

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There is nothing so simple that it cannot be misunderstood. ~Anonymous

I would put adoption on the "right" side. It is certainly to be considered over abortion.

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There is nothing so simple that it cannot be misunderstood. ~Anonymous

No, it wasn't too much info. :3

Well...I'm personally not that religious (despite the fact that my mom would like me to be...). I do believe in God...I'm just not very religious...or religious at all. But I just have to respectfully disagree about the "lost our religion" aspect. It tends to imply that everyone needs to be Christian and I just don't agree there. America was a nation founded upon the idea of freedom from religious persecution, however if someone is not of the Christian faith, many, many people tell them they're wrong in their beliefs. I always found that unfair to them and their culture. Maybe it's just because my school exposed me to so many people of different faiths that I just don't see what's wrong...that's just me. It's not like another religion is convincing people to get abortions or do immoral things...

But you're right. There is no certainty that the mother's life is in danger (except for in very rare instances). Still...I'm not one for trying to impose my personal beliefs on anyone else. I guess that just comes from me not wanting to be told what to believe and I wouldn't want to do that to someone else. I personally would never get an abortion.

Personally I couldn't give up my life for anyone because of my fear of death (yep, I fit in that category). Then again...I don't plan on having kids...I'd rather adopt a child that isn't a baby. *shrug*

Anyways...I think I might've gotten off topic.

Though I just have to say this...I often envy art like this. Not just because of how well it's done (I do envy your knowledge of lighting, shading, and color...red and blue are really difficult colors for me to use well), but because of the powerful message. I tend to stray away from putting my own thoughts/beliefs into my art 'cause I dislike getting into debates (which on dA are often arguments/insults...).

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Icon by `hibbary

Commission info: [link]

And this is how conversations end, once one of the individuals involved in it decides to go personal and use calumnious claims offending the other. In this case, I will stop my part of the conversation here, as it seem I cannot have a dialog with you.

I do have some real knowledge of the Bible, since my father is a priest and I happen to have interacted with that Book and I did try to document on it from documentaries, books and other sources. I've concluded that I cannot refute God even if I wanted to, so I stopped my researches. However, there are too many things not correlated with these days, as 2 thousand years are too much for a human being to emphasize and make a general viable prophecy for that long. I have my doubts about the Book since it was not God to write it, but mere humans. You cannot claim different and you cannot deny me the right to doubt its contents, since you're no authority.

Thanks for making me stupid I did miss that, ever since BSc was gone and the Computer Science teacher missed the opportunities of calling us as such (stupid persons) in our faces. Do you happen to know him, for you evidently share that feature

Yes, parents create life. Kids aren't zapped from the Heavens here, you need 2 individuals, male and female, to procreate. Their or their cells. Cells can also be "revived" using an electrical shock. Ever thought of that?
And I agree with you, "There is much more to a human being than tissues and organs", but before there is anything more to it, all the tissues must exist fully developed so that organs can be made out of them and then the individual could manifest a higher form of mental integration, required to have a sense of God's existence.

No, I did not have any DS contact in person. All I know is from what I have studied. "They aren't suffering" - that's what you claim. "Some of them actually have higher than normal mental capacities" - define normal. Normal as for A)the average DS individual or normal as for B)you? If you choose option B, congratulations, you have just called them "less than human". Your words, mate.

"They are perfectly normal human beings, minus some coordination and social skills" - you might want to add a few more minuses there, such as a lower life expectancy, congenital heart defects, mental retardation and so on. [link] and [link] .
"A few even get married and have perfectly normal families" - that's one strong claim there, mate. "There have been only three recorded instances of males with Down syndrome fathering children." - [link] . If those 3 are the "few" you're referring to, then you're correct, otherwise, what you claim is technically impossible.

"then you are a selfish, heartless individual and have no place being a parent" - thanks for the kind words. Coming from a total stranger, it means nothing to me. In fact, I will make a far better parent than today's standards when my fatherhood time will come. Given I am only 22 and fairly over average in terms of intelligence, altruism and skills, I plan on having a nice family, living in harmony, respect and warmth with both my future partner and our children. I'll send you some pictures when that will become true.

"A mother and her child are two individuals" - she and her born child -> yes; she and her fetus -> no. It's a fundamental discrepancy you don't seem to notice.

I'm done with this conversation. Not for being out of arguments, but for having found a non-viable interlocutor. If we cannot accept a common set of facts and use common definitions for what we use in our claims, we're doing exactly what I have warned you a few posts back - we're having 2 separate monologues in the same thread. I don't like talking to myself and perhaps neither should you.

Going down and dirty like you did, mate, does tell a great deal about you. I don't recall having done that to you, so I will not bother granting you anymore time from my life span.

How would you like to be the parent of a DS child?

Too bad there are some strong topics that never receive the appropriate strongly built arguments.
Have a good life, mate. This is the last comment you'll ever get from me. Make sure the next post you place here it's a decent one, since it would make you a shallow individual by using more calumnious claim on me, knowing that I will not reply to them.

Adios!